I’m an ordained clergywoman who grew up in a Southern Baptist church.
On June 14th, Wednesday, the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC), the nation’s largest Protestant denomination, voted to finalize the expulsion of two churches for having female pastors. While it is not surprising, especially as someone who grew up in a Southern Baptist church, my heart goes out to women in Southern Baptist churches, especially young women, for the harm this decision causes in their journey with God. I am still on the journey of recovering from internalized (and externalized) misogyny from my time at the Southern Baptist church.
My Journey
My call to ministry began when I was in high school. Having made an intentional decision to become a Christian at the age of twelve, I was eager to read and learn from the Bible. My stepfather, who was (and still is) a Southern Baptist pastor, had an office space filled with many commentaries. I used to get in trouble for sneaking into my stepfather’s office to read his commentaries. He told me that commentaries are only for pastors and not for laypeople because laypeople would not be able to handle them and might lose their faith (I have a lot to say about this statement, but that is for later.) So I told myself, then I will go to seminary myself so I can read all these commentaries as much as I want. One day, I was in a conversation with my parents (my mother and my stepfather) about where I would go for college and what I would study. I told them that I would love to go to seminary and learn more about the Bible. My mother told me, “What are you going to do with a seminary degree? It’s not like you can be a pastor!”
The harm of misogyny was so ingrained in me, and the thought of resisting did not even cross my mind. Many snarky comments about women in ministry and the subtle dismissal of their ministries were instilled in me, so I thought to myself that they must be right, and I was wrong. After all, what do I know? I am just a young girl, and they are the ones in ministry. My mother must say this out of love for me because she is a woman herself. If God really wanted me to be in ministry, God would have made me a boy and not a girl. So I said, “You are right! It’s not like I can become a pastor, so I might as well do something else!”
I told myself that pastoral ministry was not for me. I told myself that I am serving the Kingdom of God better by pursuing something else and not ministry. I told myself that I can serve as a missionary in some other country because that was the closest place I could imagine being in ministry without being “in ministry.”
“I told myself that I am serving the Kingdom of God better by pursuing something else and not ministry.”
So I decided to go to the University of Texas at Dallas, studying Biology to possibly pursue medical school afterward. But God was not done with me yet. The church I attended as a college student was a United Methodist Church, and it was not until my second year of college that my eyes beheld an Asian American clergywoman in a pulpit. I was incredibly mesmerized by her, so I went up to her after the service and asked, “Isn’t it a sin for a woman to preach?” (Yes, I was that college girl asking a question like this. Ha!)
But how she responded was just brilliant. She said, “Well, Danielle, I guess I’ll go to hell for preaching Jesus!” That is when I saw the ray of hope that I was called to be in ministry, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.
“I guess I will go to hell for preaching Jesus!”
Rev. Dr. Gloria Fowler, who was a legendary mentor, was the preacher who endured the question, “isn’t it a sin for a woman to preach?” She is truly a saint.
I wish that my story of struggle ends here, but it doesn’t. I still had many questions about how I was taught about women in ministry and how I was going to understand my calling when the Bible, in multiple locations, speaks against women in leadership. (See 1 Timothy 2:12, 1 Corinthians 11:2-16, and 1 Corinthians 15:26-40.) While I will not go in-depth right now on how I understood each case of these scriptures, Loren Cunningham’s book “Why Not Women?” really helped me understand these various scriptures against women in leadership at the time with my Southern Baptist background. As United Methodists, we have the gift of the Wesleyan Quadrilateral, engaging in tradition, reason, and experience to faithfully read Scripture.
This being an example, it took me many books and many prayers to discern my call to ministry as a woman. It took many meetings with my mentors and many tears shed to fully embrace that I was called to do this work. It took me working through many snarky questions like “Why do you have to be ordained?” or “Can’t you still do ministry without being ordained?”, many bizarre comments like “You won’t be able to get married unless you are marrying a pastor,” and many hurtful moments like when my home church never invited me to preach as a ministry candidate while a male ministry candidate from the same church is complaining that he is invited to preach too often.
Every moment when I experienced these questions, comments, or subtle ways to dismiss my call to ministry, I wondered if it was because I am a woman or because I was actually not called. Every time I witnessed my trusted pastor and church friends celebrate the male ministry candidate, and they forgot to do the same for me, I wondered if it was because I am a woman or because I am actually not really gifted in ministry.
One of the worst parts of my journey is that I chose to gaslight myself so that I maintain a sense of sanity (I know it sounds incredibly oxymoronic, but hear me out.) First of all, there is no way these people that I love must be misogynistic, and secondly, even if they were, there is no way so many of them all at the same time would be so dismissive like this. There must be something wrong with me, something wrong with my calling, perhaps, I am not called, and I didn’t hear God correctly.
These were the seasons when I learned to discern the voice of God, often small yet subversive and persistent. It often looks as insignificant as a dove we see every day, but as powerful as the sound from heaven, “This is my daughter, with whom I am well pleased.”
Those powerful voices in my life came through many congregations here in Texas (I know!) who might not have been sure at first but were willing to fiercely embrace me as their pastor. Those powerful voices came through many allies, one of them being absolutely instrumental in my ordination. Those powerful voices came through many clergywomen who paved the way for women like me, who were not afraid to use their voices to share their stories, who were persistently and daily responding to their call to ministry despite the ugliness it brings from time to time, just because they are women.
These are the beautiful saints from Millican United Methodist Church, in rural Texas (YES, rural Texas!) They served as my teaching committee members in the final year of my seminary, who fiercely affirmed my call in ministry. I am forever indebted by their love.
I was ordained last year as an elder in the North Texas Annual Conference of the United Methodist Church. I have to confess, I am still fighting against internalized and externalized misogyny, just on a different level. I am still trying to figure out how I am going to embody my ordination as an Asian American clergywoman, who also happens to be “young.” I am still trying to figure out how I can be in ministry when my identity as a woman is not desirable for many congregations.
But alongside many women, I choose to resist the evil of misogyny among us. Alongside many women who are called, I choose to listen to the small yet powerful voice of God affirming the image of God and the call to ministry I bear in my female body, “You are my daughter, with whom I am well pleased.”
Helpful Resources
If you are a woman in ministry or discerning your call in ministry, or if you are one of the support systems for women in ministry, here are helpful resources about women in ministry that I recommend:
Karoline M. Lewis, "She: Five Keys to Unlock the Power of Women in Ministry": This book was incredibly helpful, especially when I was walking through some challenging seasons in my ministry.
Grace Ji-Sun Kim, ed., "Here I am: Faith Stories of Korean American Clergywomen": I was greatly encouraged by the stories of Korean American clergywomen and how they navigated the various dynamics they have experienced in their journeys.
Loren Cunningham, David Joel Hamilton with Janice Rodgers, "Why Not Women?: A Fresh Look at Scripture on Women in Missions, Ministry, and Leadership": This book was transformative for me, especially as I was entrenched in Southern Baptist theology and its view of Scripture. This book goes over some of the theological arguments against women, as well as Scriptural references against women in ministry and how they are to be interpreted with different nuance, understanding the various dynamics behind these texts.
Are you working with a woman who is discerning her call to ministry?
These wonderful women were ordained the same year I was! I admire their incredibly impactful ministries! From the right side, they are Rev. Chelsea Peddecord, Rev. Macie Liptoi, Rev. Keri Lynn Lucas.
Here are some tips from me if you find yourself being in ministry with women who are discerning their call to ministry:
DO validate her experiences. DO NOT dismiss her experiences.
She might trust you enough to share some of her experiences, and you might not always agree with the way she is perceiving how things are as she is working through her call to ministry. Even when you find yourself not able to validate her experiences, you can always approach her with genuine curiosity. Some helpful questions might be, “Help me understand how this experience impacts your call,” or “Would you help me understand what about x affirmed/discouraged your call to ministry?” What is not helpful is to dismiss her experiences. Comments like “He/she/they did not mean that way,” or “You are overreacting,” or even defensive comments like “None of us think of you that way,” are not helpful when she is describing a vulnerable experience.
DO affirm her call to ministry. DO NOT minimize her call while affirming.
As you witness her call to ministry, do not hesitate to affirm her call. While affirming her, be careful not to minimize her calling to something that she is not called to do, for example, a ministry that is traditionally occupied by female presence or non-senior pastor roles. Instead, embrace her articulation of her call to ministry, knowing that all of us are in the process of discerning our call.
DO invite her to ample opportunities for ministry. DO NOT tokenize or patronize her in the process of it.
Many times, especially for those who are ministry candidates, women often find themselves offered fewer opportunities than their male counterparts. Invite her to practice embodying her call early on her journey. In doing so, be careful not to tokenize or patronize her. Reflect on whether you are inviting her because you want to be seen as that pastor who supports women in ministry or because you genuinely celebrate and support her call. Be mindful of how you talk about her, especially with the congregation, and refrain from using words like “She is here to learn” or “We are providing her with some opportunities.” Instead, emphasize the gift in ministry she brings to the table and how thrilled you are to learn from her.
I fiercely and persistently dream of the day when we all can be fully embraced for who we are and what we bring to the table, regardless of our gender. And until that day, I will continue to navigate through the complex webs of misogyny, trusting in the small yet powerful voice of God affirming the call to ministry I bear as a woman.
May we all continue to support and celebrate the gifts of women in ministry, knowing that the Kingdom of God is incomplete without their voices, their leadership, and their presence!
